Initially I've just used the X1 map (24 mph) for positioning of the islands, but the next stage was to use the 6 mph map from X1 to provide more detail. I'd forgotten about the Dungeon 114 map, so will have to dig it out at some point.

Wait a second, I misunderstood - you did the whole Thanegioth Archipelago?! That's awesome! I'm definitely looking forward to seeing that!

By the way I agree with you about the authenticity of the original source, X1. It may simply be because almost nothing since then touched the area, but it all seems to fit with the later additions quite nicely.

Uh? Apart from the fact that Arik shouldn't be able to do that (being currently exiled), wouldn't it be logical for him to wish to return? Or are you talking about another immortal and got the two mixed up?

Thorf

Just checked the Dungeon 114 map, and basing it on the scale shown it appears to be about 50% bigger than the island size from the 24 mph map in X1 (on a rough N-S basis). Haven't yet been able to decide how I'm going to approach the 6 mph map from X1 for a comparison though yet. Any suggestions?

Interesting... Personally, I think I will ignore the scale altogether and just use it for reference for the terrain and coastlines. I don't know how faithful it is to the original maps, but it should be fun finding out.

It looks pretty good in terms of coastlines, but it seems to go with the 6 mph from X1 with too much mountainous/bare hills terrain (for my liking). Although the original was done without a jungle/hill terrain marker. Given that the local islands are also covered with jungle, this inclines me to cover most of those hills with the new marker.

Aside from the comparisons to the 24 mph map, the map from Dungeon 114 (now that I've checked it again) seems to be pretty much a good fit for the X1 6 mph map (I think the scale for this one may be out compared to both the others).

Hmm. Give me a couple of weeks and I might have an answer.

Oh dear, you're absolutely right - the Isle of Dread as shown on the 24 mi per hex map is about half the size of the one on the 6 mi per hex map. Moreover, the coastlines only match up in the very loosest sense. The 24 mi per hex island is much thinner, and includes some of the 6 mi per hex map's islands in its single land mass.

So the official maps from the same source disagree with each other. This leaves us with a number of options:

• Re-scale the 6 mi per hex map, then update the 24 mi per hex map with the more detailed coastline. A scale of 4 mi per hex looks like it would fit quite nicely, and probably wouldn't hurt the adventure too much.
  
• Take the 6 mile scale as true and update the 24 mi per hex map with the larger outline. This preserves the Isle itself as is, but the impact on the smaller scale continental map might be quite big.
  
• Take the 24 mile scale as true - after all the X1 map is pretty accurate for the other things it shows - and redraw the Isle of Dread map accordingly. This would be quite an undertaking, and would result in a much smaller Isle of Dread. The impact on the adventure itself would be quite big.
  

All three methods are equally valid as far as "canon" is concerned; the official maps disagree with each other, after all. Personally, I would be inclined to go with number 1, though I could understand people wanting to go with number 2. Number 3 seems like an inferior version of number 1...

Thoughts?

I agree with you completely about the hills. Jungle hills appeared on official maps more than 10 years after X1 was made, so there is a definite case for some redefining of the terrain. I am tempted to make most or even all the hill hexes into jungle hills. (I'm getting images of the island in the TV show "Lost" ...)

I don't think we need to worry about the scale on the new map at all. It's questionable whether it's even official Mystara, so I have no compunctions whatsoever in ignoring parts of it - however nice it may look.

On the other hand, it would be nice to keep that map useable too, which is another reason why rescaling (option 1 above) rather than redrawing might be the best idea.

(Now I must get back to playing Final Fantasy XII while my wife is at work... I can't get near the thing while she's here! )

X1 being similar to the island from "Lost" sounds exactly the way I've envisioned it. I dont really like the idea of changing the 24 mph map. This is what Mystara grew from, and changing it just seems wrong...

I agree, keep the "Dungeon#114" map usable if possible. Details from that map could even be used for ideas about locations not detailed in X1 if any...

As far as I am concerned, I consider the adventures from Dungeon #114 as Mystaran, and the references to Greyhawk simply as one big typo...

Håvard

For my 2 cents worth, I'd also say go with option #1. It seems the most 'canon' and advantageous. I think making the island bigger on the 24 mile/hex map would be a mistake.

I'm also in favour of the jungle covered hills as well. It only makes sense in that type of enviroment. The jungles also provide cover for most everything on the island which contributes heavily to it's mysterious aspect.

Wow! That's a pretty big snafu. Surprised no one has noticed it before!

Since there are so many maps which seem to use the 24 mile map of the region as their baseline, I'd almost be inclined to go with theory #3, although- as you note- it will play havoc with the scale of the island, and result in a much smaller island than necessary. As such, I'd probably go with keeping the 6 mile/hex map and seeing how that affects the larger maps (for one thing, there won't be quite as much empty ocean there in the Sea of Dread between the landmasses).

That's a tough call.

Just double checked, the 6 mph map from X1 is a more or less exact match for the map in Dungeon 114 (even to the scale). I'm going to go with the scale from the 24 mph map. Anything else I'll just have to see.

What I'm going with for the moment (it looks OK, and not too much messing around) is taking the 6 mph map from X1. Rescaling by downsizing is 33% and then shifting the position a couple of hexes east. It still fits in the gap between the islands either side quite easily.

Here is the draft version of the Isle of Dread map. This is done according to Thorf's option 1 (and it has no effect to the poistion of the other islands in the archepeligo).



I'm still to finish the rest of the islands, but as this is one of the more famous pieces, I'd rather get comments in first. Especially with names for the volcanoes and swamps (if anyone fancies)

My first impressions are that it's looking good.

What scale is it, though? 8 miles per hex?

Oops. Yes.

One thing I feel would be appropriate would be a couple of extinct volcanoes somewhere around (I'm liable to put some around on other islands too)

Map looks good. I think this may be the best overall solutions. For the larger map, will you be able to include all of the eastern archipelago?

If possible, I'd like to see the map extend a bit north and south to pickup the submerged topology.


For a preproduction update on the gaz for TA:
1) As Denagoth is inspired by sword and sorcery flicks from the 80's, TA is all about 30's adventure films and 19th-20th century island literature. No current high-level societies, but remnants, certainly possible ....
2) Sorry, no "Lost" treatment for TA (For non US folks, are you in season 1 or 2?). The essence of Lost just doesn't mix well with Kong or Murou; however, should ths product line be continued, I do have my eye on an island for just this type of approach. A rather large island isolated in the Izondian Deep.
3) Between what has been listed on the thread, the vaults and my own feverish brain, I have adventure themes galour for the Islands. In fact, there are enough to have almost two campaigns. When TA goes into production, would you guys like a "super-gaz" that does both the islands and the Sea of Dread writ-large? or do you want it to be just the islands?

-OldDawg

Edit: accidental double post :embarrass

Mark said above that he's mapping out the whole archipelago, so the answer is almost certainly yes.

It's mostly just plain open sea, but it seems likely that the map will be made to link in with Mark's existing maps - right Mark?

I can see how you would need this if you are considering covering the various small isles of the Sea of Dread too. This does seem like a good place to cover those islands, because they are a bit small to get a gazetteer all to themselves.

Sounds good.

I wasn't actually meaning to make a comparison story-wise. I just meant that the scenery and geography shown in Lost seems extremely close to the image of the Isle of Dread that I have in my head.

Besides, in order to do a Lost parallel, wouldn't you have to have some idea of what's actually going on in Lost? I keep pretty up to date with the US airings (thanks to Bit Torrent, source of all my TV viewing!), and we still don't really have a clue what's really going on.

Adventure ideas sounds very interesting. If I might make a suggestion, perhaps this gazetteer should focus far more on adventures than past gazetteers have. It makes sense for the setting, since that is in general the only way that people are likely to have contact with the Thangioth Archipelago.

Also, I have been thinking lately what a shame it is that we don't make more adventures in our community here. Gazetteers and maps abound, but adventures are a little thin on the ground...

Part on topic, part off:

Off Topic ("Lost"): yeah I do have a bit of an idea about what's going on, or as clear as anyone else . The theory boards over at oceanicflight815 have reams of ideas that even if they aren't actually correct for the show, are by themselves wonderful adventure ideas.

for a "lost"-style campaign, the special wrinkle is backstory. Every character played gets a detailed history known only to the player and the DM. DM's task is setting up parallelism and interconnectedness in adventures. Very much "role-playing" over hack-n-slash.

On Topic: you are right, by themselves the islands of the SoD don't merit gaz' treatments. but collectively, 10 islands plus the ocean itself and peripheral nations is enough for a gaz.

Adventure treatment definitely will be more important in TA.

I too would like to see some modules put out by the group. Now that we have a brand-spanking new gaz (wendar) and another on the way (Denagoth), perhaps there is someone out there willing to to write a 8-16-24 page adventure in the north?

Indeed, what I'm eventally going to post is effectively the region covered by the 24 mph map from X1 in 8 mph format. At the moment I have this (Known world 8 mph). I'm working on updating this to cover Thorf's Wendar and Atruaghin changes as well before I post the final version.

I'm still only in the middle of Season 1 here, but I'm thinking about running something like a Lost-type scenarion on the Isle of Dread.

1) Plane crash substituted by shipwreck.
2) "the hatch" replaced by Wizard's lab.
3) "Others" could be pirates, other "ship wreckees" etc.
4) I like the backstory angle, this could even be played out as flashbacks in-game, but preferably if all PCs are present in the flashbacks. I'll probably skip it though, and concentrate on the main plot.
5) "The Monster" replaced(?) by dinosaurs, obviously.

Things I havent seen yet in season 2+ could easily change all this obviously, but the above could make for an interesting campaign IMO.

Håvard

You could always make it a flying ship, even the Princess Ark.

Regards
Gary

Wrecking the Princess Ark???
!

I thought about using a Flying Ship, but at least for my own campaign, I prefer keeping it low-magic at least unless something else fits its purpose.

Ofcourse, there might still be a crashed Alphatian ship filled with Zoonga Bush somewhere on the island...

Håvard

It's not as if it hasn't happened before.

Now if you were being really evil you could crash Serraine into the Isle of Dread.

Regards
Gary

Two things: On the topic of TA/IoD super-Gaz vs TA & IoD seperate, I'm leaning towards the former. Although the IoD is the largest in the western TA, Aside from X1 there's not much real info there, I think we could fit all of TA, including IoD into a normal sized Gaz.

Second: Adventure Mods... as part of my 3e project, I was intending on soliciting for original adventures and expanding the hooks found in the Gaz's. But that's still a ways away. Most of the adventures in the Vaults are little more than b/g and hook... The only full-fledged module that I can think of off the top of my head is Jenni's...

Oh, and OldDawg, I would like to thank you for keeping your Gaz's along the same rules-light style as the Almanacs... It makes it so much easier to use for both classic and 3e...
But I have a suggestion... For those who heed the call of module design, maybe we could keep a singular format? Use the same cover style as the old TSR mods, changing the color of the bar at the top to designate the rules-set used? blue=0e, green=2e, red=3e?

Roger

I just finished my replica and converted (rotated) maps for the Isle of Dread (for which see my thread). I had a look at the Dragon 114 online supplement map, and I noticed that it has quite a lot of new names. I haven't decided yet what to do with them; some seem very reasonable, while others don't quite seem to fit - perhaps there are Greyhawk influences to some names?

My updated map (the original map rotated and rescaled) seems to fit almost perfectly with your new 8 mi per hex map, so I guess we're both on the same track.

Could you link the Dragon 114 online supplement map and your just finished (rotated) map?
I'd like to have a look.

I think the online supplement is available on this site, though I'm afraid I don't remember where exactly.

As for my maps, check my thread as usual. I didn't want to clog up this thread with lots of big maps.

Supplement is available from the Paizo site here