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  1. n
    15 August 2021 @ 5:10 am

    This one really conflicts with the Norwold map from CM1, it pushes Landfall several hundred miles North of where it should be based on your combined map here:

    https://www.thorfmaps.com/lets-map-mystara-1985/

    How will you fix it??

    Reply

    • Thorfinn Tait
      18 August 2021 @ 7:09 pm

      This problem is often referred to as the Norwold Conundrum. You can see my solution here on the Mystara 1986 page (currently a work-in-progress, but the relevant map is there).

      Basically, X11 got the Norwold part completely wrong. But as it’s also the primary source for Wendar and Denagoth (not to mention Heldann), a compromise is necessary. The best solution is to overwrite the Norwold parts of X11’s map with CM1’s map.

    • n
      19 August 2021 @ 12:22 am

      Thanks for the answer!

      I love it your solution, it makes a lot of sense. I had come to a similar conclusion these days while playing around trying to combine your maps at a 24 miles scale.

      In the process, I have noticed that the Isle of Dawn map from Dawn of the Emperors does not line up very well with the outline of “Jurassic Mystara”. If I understand correctly, you are taking the “Jurassic Mystara” map as the exact reference, and scaling everythign to fit that. When you do this, it looks like the scale of this Isle of Dawn map might have to be interpreted as something other than 24 miles per hex… maybe about 23 miles per hex? Not unlike what you had to do with the Orc’s Head peninsula. And this would reflect in turn on the 24 miles map of Metropolitan Alphatia.

      That’s a bit annoying. I was hoping you might one day come up with a unified map at a 24 miles scale, but that seems difficult to do without redoing all the maps with a non-standard scale.

    • Thorfinn Tait
      19 August 2021 @ 12:37 am

      You’re absolutely right! I’m impressed. 😀

      In fact, the Isle of Dawn is quite problematic. My findings are as follows: M5’s map, while it is quite compatible with the Dawn of the Emperors map, is in fact not 24 miles per hex, but rather 33.7 (if I remember right). And as you point out, even Dawn of the Emperors’ map doesn’t fit, and needs to be scaled down. I’ve found that 22.5 miles per hex gets a really good fit.

      This unfortunately means rescaling the 8 mile per hex maps of the Isle of Dawn, too. Which means that TM2’s depiction is slightly off — though the part closest to Brun, across from Ostland, is largely unchanged, so it’s a pretty minor thing.

      As to Alphatia, in fact it doesn’t fit the Master Set map anyway, as its shape was changed radically over the course of the years. Thus, I am choosing not to touch its scale, and to keep it at 24 miles per hex. This has the added advantage of not messing with Bruce’s 8 mile per hex maps and their attached extensive demographics.

      Ochalea, the Alatians, and the Pearl Islands I have not yet looked into, but I suspect they will need to be scaled to 22.5 miles per hex. There is very little room to compromise, because Davania must be placed accurately, too, and it’s surprisingly close.

      What I haven’t yet explored is Bellissaria, Esterhold and Skothar. I’ll need to get onto that quite soon, as it’s really the last big stumbling block.

    • Thorfinn Tait
      19 August 2021 @ 12:41 am

      Oh, and regarding a unified 24 mile per hex map: I haven’t yet done this in the Let’s Map Mystara project, but in fact I’ve been considering doing it for a long time. Have you seen how I’ve revised Mystara 1983 in my recent posts? I kept the full combined map, but also posted the separate parts. I am now thinking to do this with successive years, too, and at the same time convert the rotated and scaled parts for the full contiguous map, while keeping them as is in the separate maps.

      So for 1984, Norwold will have an updated map that looks almost identical to the CM1 maps, but the version of Norwold that attaches to the Known World on the Brun 24 mile per hex map will be redrawn to match the contiguous hex grid.

      Sound good?

    • n
      19 August 2021 @ 3:24 am

      Have you seen how I’ve revised Mystara 1983 in my recent posts? I kept the full combined map, but also posted the separate parts.

      Yes, it is great!

      So for 1984, Norwold will have an updated map that looks almost identical to the CM1 maps, but the version of Norwold that attaches to the Known World on the Brun 24 mile per hex map will be redrawn to match the contiguous hex grid.

      Sound good?

      It sounds fantastic! It is what I have always wished for.

      Are there many canonical sources for the northern shores of Davania? All I have seen so far in your maps is that little bit from Champions of Mystara (1993). (By the way, I have seen that the Serpent Strait seems to be too wide there, so Davania will have to be moved a bit closer, another little thing to fix!)

      Anyway, my second fondest desire would be to have the Concordance Map that you are building toward include all of the Sea of Dread. A mid-level campaign around all of it might be loads of fun.

      Oh and then you will have to decide whether B3 is in Eastern Karameikos or on the Adri Varma plateau. Will you keep Gulluvia throughout all of the years, or remove it at some point? I see so far it is there in 1983 but it vanished in 1984 and 1985.

    • Thorfinn Tait
      19 August 2021 @ 7:59 pm

      That little fragment is the only 24 mile per hex segment. On 72 mile per hex maps there are a few more: Dawn of the Emperors and the Poor’s Wizard’s Almanac (II, I believe). My placement is based on the Master Set map, so those might be shifted around somewhat. I’m not entirely sure yet.

      You’re absolutely right — a Shores of the Sea of Dread map is a great idea. And of course it would need to be presented in overland and undersea variants. John Calvin has already done this sort of thing, and it looks great (see his overland and undersea maps at the Vaults).

      Regarding Gulluvia, it’s actually a recent addition to Mystara 1983. I’m currently conducting a “read through” of the project, and revising the maps in the process. I’ve now finished posting the 1983 maps in preparation for discussion. When that’s all done, I will continue on to the 1984 and later maps, adding in revisions as necessary — Gulluvia and the contiguous map ideas included.

    • n
      20 August 2021 @ 12:54 am

      Those maps by John Calvin are very nice, yes… but what’s the big grey disc on that undersea map??

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