Nice! The village headman could be a rich/influential local landowner/noble (in the plains), an elven lord (in the forests) or a loyal person chosen by the king (in critical areas).

I like this very much! The parliament could be indeed imagined as a sort of late middle-age German/Eastern European "Dieta" or French "States-General", i.e. an assembly not-to-strictly divided by class, in which one could find rapresentatives of the landowners, the townspeople, the forest communities and perhaps in smaller number the druids, the priests of the Korrigans, the demihuman (centaur and the like) population, etc.

Another thought: most of the land in Wendar could belong to the crown or to the clans (the forests above all), while the remaining land would be in the hands of the low nobility (elven and human alike).

Sorry if I went a little off-topic...

Hi again folks!

Well, you request from me a name for all of the Nine Korrigans, uh? it's something that I considered doing all the time, but I never finalized my thoughts.

I know for sure just that I planned on naming them in a way similar to the Nine Svartalven quoted in GAZ7, in order to cast a thin line between the norse elven mythoi and Wendar's own legends.
Another idea I had was to tie them to different fields of magic or in general to different crafts, so that each one could have been associated with a different portfolio and I would have used nicknames (say one is the Hunter, another is the Scholar, another is the Healer, etc.. I'd obviously use some kind of colorful adjective too to design each Korrigan)

I'll get back to you with something more consistent next time, since I'm still pondering the different solutions.

PS 4 Thorf: Scarlet Groves is great
And I too believe that we should check out the village names once we're finished, cause it seems to me we've got a very wide spectre of linguistic influences there
PPS: please do not give in to your inner Tolkien fanboy and resist the temptation to turn Wendar and Denagoth into Middle Earth. Inspiration is okay, a carbon copy is just dull

Is it possible that Wendar's human population could have something to do with the names for the Korrigans? I don't know the history of the area that well, but the cultural background for "Norse" names for the Korrigans is there, isn't it?

Regarding the nicknames, it seems to me that they could be used as the names for the shrines: Shrine of the Hunter, Shrine of the Healer, Shrine of the Scholar, Shrine of the Warrior, Shrine of the Priest, Shrine of the Merchant, etc. I don't know which professions you want to choose, though. (Maybe the three I said as examples are not appropriate, I don't know.)

Regarding Tolkien, I am actually a huge fan, but I like to keep my Tolkien as separate as possible from Mystara. A little chance resemblance is okay, but go too far and things start to get a bit strange, I think.

I need to catch up on this thread, I just noticed there are a few posts I missed. I'll try to find time as soon as I can.

PSSSST... hey Thorf, you still need to change the Kevar Hills into Kevareth Hills

Oh and another thing: I believe it should be added a road from Gylharen Keep to Wendar City.

Also, I have always thought Sylvair to be the most populated "elven" town in Wendar, and as such I'd like to to be closer to the Korrigans Forest.

As for Wendar's history, the elven patrons of the nation are recognized both by humans and elves alike, so if you want to name them you should simply choose something "elvish" in style and you have it. I also make you note that many elven geographical names are strictly coming from Anglo-Saxon or Norse (Evergrun, Grunland, Alfheim, etc..)

I'd prefer to leave them unnamed anyway, assigning a ROLE to each one. Then you may have "the Green Hunter" as the Human tongue translation of the elven word Olayan'thiar. So Olayan'thiar may sound as an elven name, where in fact it is just a nickname or a designative term (Green Hunter).

Some proposals:
Hunter (Green, Silver, Stealthy, Relentless, Silent, Lone)
Healer (Wondrous, Pious, Compassionate, Merciful, Holy)
Savant/Scholar (Wise, Lone, Eldritch, Grey, White)
Warrior (Bright, Brave, Holy, Indomitable, Ultimate... pardon the pun!)
Beastmaster (...)
....

bring em on!

Wow, this map is coming along nicely guys. I am actually beginning to plan some adventuring in Wendar. One of my players is from there and I have the Saga of the Shadowlord planned to play. This map and the information about it in this thread will be very useful in making their trip last a little longer and reveal the culture of this land.

What you propose is a good solution: no individual elven names, only elven nicknames. The collective name of "Korrigans" with whom they're worshipped keeps in line with their "collective" origin, since they all gained immortality together (and that was an unique event in Immortal history, right DM? ). The absence of names stresses the importance the Korrigans assign to co-operation over self-interest.

For what concerns the portfolio of each Korrigan, I think something of undeniable elven would be better; the Heldannic people have their own Norse immortals after all, even if the pay reverence to elven immortals also.
IMHO the roles of "the priest" or "the merchant" sound too much human.

Some other proposals (with possible portfolios):

Rainbow Singer (song, music, poetry, bards)
Silver Carver (arts, beauty, crafting)
Spring Maiden (waterfalls, rivers, ponds and lakes)
Tree Speaker (trees, plants, vegetation)
Watchful Seer (stars, dreams, moon, divination)

I've been wondering about this for a while now. My father has a rather large inkjet printer for printing photos, and I am definitely considering getting my brother to print out some maps for me on that. Unfortunately, it's halfway across the world from where I live.

Another option would be to go to a photography shop and see if you could get it printed there. I'm definitely considering this one, although large sizes would cost the earth.

This is an excellent basis for doing such a map to cover the area north of Wendar. It actually doesn't have to be very full, and you've already presented more than enough ruins and such to stock it, so I'll have to have a go and see what I come up with.

The further north you go the less official sources there are to rely on...

I had forgotten a label there, but it was the Kevareth Woods, remember? I've added it in now.

I have also tentatively placed the Shrines of the Korrigans around the nation, with placeholder names. Since the idea is that they form a magical protection web, I tried to put them all around the borders of Wendar (thus handily explaining why Wendar hasn't managed to successfully expand past the northern border). The remaining shrines were placed in the middle of the nation to form the centre of the web in the Enchanted Forest and of course the Korrigan Forest.

Any and all of the shrines are open for movement, so if you see a better location for any of them, please tell me. I'd like to try to keep them balanced around the nation, though.

Yep, I also wanted to place a trail to the Keep, but I couldn't decide which route would be best, so I didn't put it on. I've added on quite a few more trails now, but please tell me if there are any more changes or additions I should make.

My hands are tied here, because I'd like to try to keep the four main towns in the same general locations as the source maps. What I can do is add some forest around Sylvair. I added a few hexes, but we could add a fair bit more and make it into a town in its own little forest, if you like.

Hmm, this makes me wonder... have you worked on a list of Immortals worshipped in Wendar, or an outline of the churches there? I don't recall seeing one, but it could be useful. Consider yourself requested!!

Look on the first page of the thread to see the latest version of the map!

Exactly my point, very good Zendrolion!
The Korrigans are unique in Immortal history since they gained immortality all together by refusing to fight with one another for supremacy and instead ascended as a unique "mind" despite having different personalities.

On the same level, the Twelve Watchers are also unique because a single person developed different personalities and was able to undertake the Path of the Polymath WITHOUT being reincarnated but leading different parallel lives at the same time in the same body.

You've got some good proposals, Zendrolion, so I'm stealing some of them to complete the list of the nine Korrigans as follows:

Rainbow Singer (music, poetry, lore, illusion, fun)
Silver Carver (arts, beauty, crafting)
Spring Maiden (waterfalls, rivers, ponds and lakes)
Verdant Caretaker (trees, plants, vegetation)
Silent Hunter (hunting, stealth, animals)
Merciful Healer (healing, medicine, compassion)
Fiery Champion (battle, fire, sun, honor, loyalty)
Dreaming Seer (stars, dreams, divination)
Eternal Wanderer (travels, adventure, discovery)

There might be a Tenth Korrigan who didn't become immortal and took instead a much darker aspect... nough said for now anyway

Is this related to the Forest of Shadows by any chance?

Do you want me to go ahead and add the names to the shrines? And do you have any preference for which is which?

Can't say more about the Tenth Korrigan, but I will in due time I promise
As for the name of the shrines, I'd like to have these:
Fiery Champion in the Scarlet Groves
Eternal Wanderer near the Everway Tower
Spring Maiden in the southern Forest of Bounty (next to the river's wells)
Dreaming Seer in the Laughing Woods
Merciful Healer in the Enchanted Forest
Silent Hunter in the northern part of the Forest of Bounty
Silver Carver in the Korrigan Forest next to Bensarian's Hermitage
Rainbow Singer in the woods south of Kevar
Verdant Caretaker in the Forest of Shadows

Basically you need to remove the Shrine you placed in the middle of Wendar and move it to its south-eastern corner, because they represent the borders of the magical web that protects Wendar (its center is the Elvenstar in Wendar City).

I haven't written out the Church of Wendar yet, mainly because there is no such religious body, but I'll cover Wendar's religion next week, unless somebody wants to anticipate me on this subject
Basically from the way I intended it, the Korrigans are worshipped broadly among elves and humans alike, but some human settlements also worship the old Antalian gods Wotan (Odin), Donar (Thor) and Frigg (Terra), especially the settlements in the eastern part of Wendar.

Okay Marco, I added in the shrine names. Check out the map on page 1!

Very good choices for the names indeed, I like them! The Tenth Korrigan idea also: simply terrific!

The map is growing very well! Congratulations, Thorf! Who thought Wendar would eventually earn its place among KW's detailed nations?

Up it to 12 and you've got the Twelve Watchers.

Regards,
Gary

Thorf,

Just had a look at the latest version of the map...wow! It's so much of an improvement over the original!

Geoff

I agree. This is truly fabulous.
(Wondering whether Dawnblossom-Qvar should be moved slightly to the east - so it wouldn't be so close to the Shrine.)

Hello, everybody! Great job on the map, Thorf, & way to go everyone for fleshing out this region. Now I'll add my thoughts

The forests are naturally troublesome, since TSR had a nasty habit of going back and forth between coniferous and deciduous forest symbols. I definitely think that the majority of the forested area in Wendar should, indeed, be evergreen, but I like the idea of having some deciduous forest land the region of Oakwall, particularly since it's hard to justify the "Oak" in Oakwall's name otherwise. Thorf, would you consider changing at least some of the southwestern woodland to the deciduous tiles (the bushy trees used in Alfheim, for instance)?

This brings me to a related point: "Oakwall" and "Woodgate" are such evocative names that, to me, at least, it seems a shame not to use them to full effect. Somewhere near Oakwall, I think, there should be some clear-cut line of oaks. Either a division between oak woods and pine forest, or else an abrupt shift between oak woods and cleared land.

"Woodgate," to me, evokes the image of the road plunging into Mirkwood in The Hobbit: "a sort of arch leading into a gloomy tunnel made by two great trees that leant together, too old and strangled with ivy and hung with lichen to bear more than a few blackened leaves." Since the term "Tolkienesque" has been used more than once to describe X11, Wendar, and Denagoth, why not embrace it? The trail to the northwest of Woodgate, I propose, dives immediately into a deep, dark forest. Even though the forested stretch is not long (a few miles, at most), it is a place sufficiently intimidating to keep out all but the elves and the hardiest of humans. The areas northwest of Woodgate, therefore, should be pretty much exclusively the domain of the elves (and whatever other nonhuman beasties may be out there).

What different types of trees do people picture in Wendar? The almanac entry mentions sequoia, oak, and pine, I believe. I seem to remember that the Wendarian range was called fir-clad somewhere, and this seems appropriate. In areas where springs and little lakes are plentiful, I picture aspen in abundance.

In general, I would argue against many fortresses. As fleshed out in X11, the Elvenstar is the primary means of defense for Wendar, making the country more or less invulnerable to large-scale assaults. Furthermore, the evidence in X11 suggests that Wendar relies more on adventurers than on soldiers. While Wendar does indeed have soldiers, they are clearly insufficient to repel an assault from Denagoth without the protection of the Elvenstar. Wendar has at least a small spy network, with an active agent mentioned in X11. Wendar's armed forces are not significant enough to merit a mention in PWA1, though most other lands detailed have corresponding army entries.

I guess my image of Wendar is of a country rather similar to the Freeholds (and likely its population was bolstered significantly by the Heldannic Knights' takeover). I don't really see Wendar or Gylharen as the sort for the high taxation necessary to maintain a large standing army. The Joshuan's entry indicates that the people of Wendar are freedom-loving and that they welcome adventurers. That having been said, there are significant dangers on Wendar's borders, and at least some sorts of watchtowers or something should exist.

I seem to recall some source stating that the face of the Adri Varma has numerous rockslides and cuttings, allowing relatively easy access to and from the the Plateau. Even if this is not the case, a watchtower or two are good ideas here, and likely also on the northern frontier. Clearly, some sort of observation system is necessary on the frontier with Denagoth, and likely along the short Heldannic border. While I agree that relations with Glantri are cordial, I'm not sure anyone could share such an extensive border with Morphail's subjects and not be somewhat cautious.

Therefore, it seems reasonable that there be some sort of watchtower every twenty-five miles or so around the entire border. If this is the case, manning each tower with just twenty soldiers would mean that around a thousand soldiers are stationed in these watchtowers, and not one of these would be a strong enough garrison to really dissuade much of anything. I would tend to suggest, rather, that any such watchtowers be very simple structures, manned, more than likely, by only three or four individuals--something like the firespotting watchtowers in America's National Forests. Their job would be to defend themselves if necessary, and to signal in warning through some sort of relay. Wendar's frontiers are simply too extensive to guard by force without transforming it into some sort of military state.

Very interesting thoughts Patrick, especially about trees (since I am no botanist at all, I am always fascinated by this knowledge) I would second your ideas there.
I'm also in favour of giving more water sources to Wendar, namely a few lakes and rivers which are dangerously lacking in the map

Finally, I like your consideration on the watchtowers in place of keeps, but I might add something that maybe you don't have considered.
The Elvenstar works (IMVHO) in connection with the shrines of the Nine Korrigans and creates a web of protection all over Wendar. However, if you closely examine the locations of the shrines, you will notice that by connecting them one after the other to obtain the perimeter of the protective area, some areas remain unprotected. These places need keeps and guards to oversee the region.
Also, it is true that the Elvenstar can keep Wendar safe from invasions (exactly HOW it can is better not be addressed now), I doubt that the Elvenstar can keep villages safe from wandering bands of monsters, dragons or raiders. That's the duty of the local garrison.
For this reason I'd put few keeps in strategic locations where people NEED them to cope with recurring threats from nearby mountains or woods.
Frankly speaking, I don't think there are too many keeps in Wendar as it stands, since it only has got five.

I hadn't overlooked your earlier post about this, and I meant to comment that I very much like this idea! An added benefit is that it helps explain why certain other individuals in other places (to avoid unnecessary spoilers) cannot make full use of the Elvenstar in X11. It also helps establish clearly that the Elvenstar is not just a magic item, but a genuine artifact.

An excellent point--five does not seem excessive, although I think that is probably a good place to stop adding fortresses. That way protection is sparse enough to force caution and to make adventurers beloved, yet it exists to counter major threats.

I'm putting together a rough timeline for major events in the Northern Wildlands, using Shawn and Marco's Wendar timeline as a reference. I'll be working in references you might be able to use to populate your map (battles, etc.) It's main use will be for (hopefully) inspiring DMs to do something with the region, but also to backfill some historical gaps in order to explain the mapping inconsistency. It's about 60% complete, should be done soon...

You know, this is literally the first time in years I've been bitten with the inspiration bug to write.

Geoff

I've been really busy lately, and I haven't had much time for mapping or even checking the boards. But I have got a bit of reading done, and I just got to the part in Dragonking of Mystara where Shadowmere is first mentioned.

The description places it in "a great pocket of forest known as the Foxwoods, partially surrounded by the Wendarian Range". This seems like a pretty clear description of the area southwest of the Kevar Hills. When I next update, I'll mark it in as a shrine (?) in the middle of that valley.

More replies here when I get the chance.

Very Cool Thorf! Shadowmere was the one I thought of when I mentioned the DL trilogy earlier in this thread. Although opinons about the novels may differ, I see no reason not to use them when they dont contradict canon, and actually expand upon it (without sucking, naturally).

Not all of the DL triology is true IMC but the core of the events and locations are. The rest have been tweaked or ignored according to my own taste


Håvard

Must stat out the Veydran.

Regards,
Gary

Veydran? Hmmm....been a while since I read the books apparently...

Håvard

Thorf,

Because of my really bad memory, I can't remember when the map changes/gets updated.

Could you put a note on the post with the map in. Something along the lines of Last updated on...?

Regards,
Gary

Håvard

The Veydran are a race of intelligent wyvern-like creatures. Reducing the physical stats and increasing the mental stats of a typical wyvern should work. Don't know about the tail sting though, it's not mentioned in the books (IIRC). Could keep it but give it a different effect.

Will post it in the monster conversion thread once done.

Regards,
Gary

Well, it seems to me that we have got a pretty good map done at this point. New settlements and such can always be added at a later point, of course, but for now I'd like to change the focus of this thread, and do some work to integrate everyone's work into a cohesive whole, maybe create some more links between the towns and villages, revise the placenames so they fit together better, and generally tighten up our whole design for Wendar.

Once we've completed this final stage, we should have a completed map, as well as the rather promising beginnings of a Wendar Gazetteer.

I'm currently working on an edited version of our Wendar gazetteer, putting together all the stuff we have collected and made for this thread. When it's done, I will post it for our criticism.

In the meantime, I'm open to any suggestions for how to tighten up our designs.

While I am editing, I will also be posting some questions relating to the design. The questions will be directed to the original writers of the pieces in question, but everyone should feel free to answer.

First question is for Marco:

I've edited this slightly to fit the map, but I was wondering if the line about there being many shrines was still valid? Obviously the forest now includes one of the big 9 shrines, but there aren't any others currently marked. Can we assume this refers to smaller shrines, or should we cut the line?