Well, unless Ordana magically transported it to her own plane, the One Tree is now gone. It was in Evergrun, and Evegrun got destroyed when it became the new south pole and the Immortals had to punch through it to create a new permanent gate to the Hollow World, remember?

These sound fine to me.

Geoff

This works extremely well - go for it!

Geoff

But Marco, that's the boring answer!

Seriously, it seems unlikely that she would allow such an investment of her power to be destroyed so easily. Something must have happened with it, whether it was Ordana or one of her enemies who took advantage of the confusion.

The point is, it could make a very interesting idea for a campaign goal or a long term quest, for the PCs to find out what happened to the One Tree. Precisely what did happen to it could be left up to individual DMs, but finding out would probably require time travel, research into the origins of the elves and their ancient history.

Cool idea!

Here is the Tolkien explaination:
The Tree was eaten by a powerful dragon, or its powers drained by a demi-god spider who is still alive somewhere, but now with tremendous powers.

For game purposes, perhaps it would be more fun if the PCs somehow can restore the Tree though. Maybe an evil wizard has transported the tree to a demiplane where he still feeds upon its powers while terrorizing the elves of Vulcania....

BTW: I'm still thinking Grunland and Evergrun have been saved somewhere in the Hollow World, even though Ka's preservation project hadn't been started yet at that point....

Håvard

I agree with the idea of an elven kingdom with an integrated human population. However, Wendar isn't Alfheim, and perhaps the "level" of human-elf integration could be different from area to area.

So I think that even among elves, lifestyle could differ: some clans inhabit the forests, in a more Alfheimish way; some elves inhabit cities (and run business and shops); even some other live in the plains, farming the land.
About 55-75% of the elves should IMO live in the forests.
Of course, the clans in the dense woods are the most reclusive among elves and those living in the deepest forests don't like to have much relations with humans (perhaps these are a sort of counterpart to the "Humans Rights Movement" ).

The human population lives mostly in the plains and in the light woods. Most of them are farmers, shopkeepers (in the cities) and woodcutters (closely watched by the elves).
This way, one could find the more integrated communities in the plains and in the cities, while in the woods the elven population grows and the deep forests tend to be populated by elves only.

Excellent point! When I think Wendar, I think of the same sorts of words that you'd see in ads for real estate in Colorado: idyllic, remote, secluded, rugged, scenic, pristine, tranquil, remote, serene, pure, etc.

Sure, it's an elven kingdom with a lot of humans integrated, but it is not, in my opinion, just another elven kingdom. I would like to think that the Alfheim refugees feel at least as alien in Wendar as do its human inhabitants. To a human peasant, the elves of Wendar seem mysterious and beautiful, but there is a true kinship: the dirt on the collar and callous on the hand shows that these elves know what it is to dig in the earth for a living. To an Alfheimer, the elves of Wendar seem almost human, as if they have lived too long among humans.

The elves of Wendar feel a protective kinship with nature, but their understanding of the natural world differs from that of the archetypal druid: trees, deer, and bears, of course, but also stone, fire, and humans exist in nature, and can exist in balance. All of this, of course, is my opinion--I might be able to back up one or two of these statements with a little research, but it's mostly instinct.

Great question, Thorf!

Now I've got a question: We're talking about incorporating significant aspects of several immortals in Wendar:
The Korrigans (Sphere of Energy)
The Great One (Sphere of Matter)
Ordana (Sphere of Time)
Idris (Sphere of Entropy)

Am I the only one whose sense of symmetry is offended? The absence of Thought sticks out like a sore thumb, to me, as if we are saying that Wendar is utterly unthinking

There are several valid opportunities to incorporate at least one immortal from the Sphere of Thought:
-Frey and/or Freyja seem like a natural fit, their following brought by Heldannic/Antalian humans.
-Odin could also work, and it certainly seems that Gylharen is a practicioner of wise rule.
-Tiresias fits what I see as the mood of Wendar....
-Ssu-Ma might be the best fit, representing the wealth of magic and knowledge that must be in the elves' keeping. He also helps emphasize the point that the elves have been here a long time. The problem, as I see it, is that we will naturally run into trouble deciding on how to describe the elves if they have, for millennia, followed all four of the non-entropic mortals represented in Wendar.
-Cretia, Noumena, or Korotiku could help bring forth the lighter side of the people of Wendar, who seem a very solemn lot.

Thoughts?

Edited 9/1/05: corrected "Energy" to "Entropy" for Idris--that's what I meant to say--Thanks, Thorf!

Well said! You beat me to this point! As to your 55% to 75% of elves living in the woods, I'd agree to this sort of breakdown during the time period when 10% of the inhabitants are Alfheim refugees living in the woods. Prior to this, I would argue for a blend with more elves in the farmland, pastures, and cities.

Except for the deep forests that even the elves are afraid to enter, right? I would also tend to think that even the most isolationist of Wendar elves at least respect other peoples' contribution to the general welfare--I don't see quite the level of xenophobia among Wendar's elves as is found in Alfheim.

I haven't got much time now, but just a quick reply to tell you that Idris belongs to Entropy, and Thought is represented by Odin, Frey and Freyja.. Keep in mind that almost all meaningful aspects of life (for elves) are embodied by the Nine Korrigans, so there isn't much more to cover..
I do not think however it is necessary to have somebody from every sphere. It doesn't work like that . It is simply a matter of cultural development

On the subject of how do the Wendarian elves behave.. well, I think you've got the points: they are more human than elves to Alfheim elves, but definitely not humans for the human purists. I think they dwell on the ground, and only occasionally build houses up the trees. After all, look at all other elvish civilizations: Sylvan Realm had stone cities and towers, Belcadiz have wooden and stone houses, as much as Callarii have.. the only exception seems to be Alfheim elves!
Personally, I'd make the Shiye different from them and living in tents and makeshift houses built with magic, but the Wendar elves should be divided among tree-dwellers and soil-dwellers IMO

Thanks for catching my mistake re: Idris--my fingers got ahead of my brain, I think. I must've missed the point that Odin, Frey, and Freyja have a following... maybe we ought to give one or more of them a shrine/temple/monument/something on the map, too? I think Frey and Freyja fit wonderfully. Odin, I'm less sure about, but I don't have any objections to his having a presence.

As for whether there should be an immortal from the Sphere of Thought represented, I agree that it is not necessary, but it just seems out of kilter to have four of the five spheres represented. The thought initially came to me in thinking that the elves of Wendar seemed moreearthy, but since their primary patrons seem to be Ordana and/or the Korrigans, earthy seemed like the wrong adjective.

By the way, what is the relationship between the following of the Korrigans and that of Ordana? Is the Leaf of Life or whatever we call it a manifestation of Ordana's blessing? Or is it an artifact of Time more or less held hostage by the followers of The Korrigans (Sphere of Energy)? If we are to assign powers, I would think they should be more time-oriented: maybe a year's worth of its sap acts as a potion of longevity?

Just tossing out ideas to try to flesh this out a bit more

I'm not so hot on marking any other Immortal's shrines on the map. I mean, I have no doubt they exist, it's just that I think they wouldn't be nearly as integral to Wendar as a whole compared to the shrines to the Nine Korrigans.

I've really never thought about looking at pantheons from a Sphere perspective but I do so the value of it. A church's overall doctrine would be heavily influenced by the Spheres it's patriate Immortals belong to. As a simple example, a church with a majority of Immortals of the Sphere of Matter would be more likely to be very ordered and structured, traditional, and use earth in their rituals (such as burial for the dead). It's just a thought about tendencies.

That is certainly an interesting possibilty but I'd think the elves wouldn't be overly enthused about extending their longevity.

Simply put, you cannot have only Frey and Freyja cults in an Antalian-descended group without having Odin too, because he's the Allfather for those people (it's like saying some civilization worships St Peter and St John without acknowledging Christ).
Odin embodies the Sky, Lightning, Wisdom and Knowledge, so it's paramount that he is the high lord of the humans living in Wendar. Not that they don't worship the Korrigans, but they prefer seeing them as subordinates of Odin (the elves obviously don't think so)

I don't know...I guess it depends on what you'd do with the Aesir/Vanir issue. It is theoretically possible that the Vanir originally represented a different pantheon; perhaps even an elven one. It might actually fit quite well with Mystara now that I think of it...

Håvard

I got to thinking about the existence of water features in Wendar (none on any of TSR's maps, which is wholly dissatisfying to many), and it led me in some interesting directions.

First off, per PWA3 (and, I think, the other two, though I don't have them handy), the Wendarian Range is a Basalt mountain range. This means, among other things, that it is volcanic. This leads me to the theory that, at some point within the past hundred thousand years or so, major volcanic activity in the Wendarian Range (possibly also in the Mengul) caused enormous lava flows across what is now the Wendarian Plain. While this is fairly incompatible with significant habitation at the same time, it does provide us with a basis for some of the observed characteristics of Wendar: 1) it is a largely flat area surrounded by very rugged terrain; 2) we do not see major evidence of landscape changes due to erosion; and 3) there does not seem to be substantial amounts of groundwater present in Wendar.

If the Wendarian Plain consists of sedimentary rock capped by a thin layer of basalt flowstone, it would help explain why the soil is highly permeable, that is, that water tends to seep into the ground rather than pooling on the surface. Extending this by comparison to the geography of Northern Arizona (a landscape with a basalt-capped sedimentary substructure), small streams and lakes should be abundant with springtime snowmelt, but the moisture should quickly percolate through, leaving the surface relatively dry in all but the wettest summers. Volcanic topsoil tends to be highly fertile, which would help explain the vast forests and at least some farming activity. Perhaps most importantly, this helps explain why Wendar can be so remarkably smooth when it is surrounded by such rugged terrain. However, this also brings up a couple valid questions.

1) Where does the water go? I would hypothesize that the volcanic layer is relatively thin, and that much of the snowmelt and rainfall in Wendar stays, at least temporarily in the local aquifer, meaning that if you dig a well anywhere in Wendar, you have a fantastic chance of finding water. Eventually it needs to go somewhere. I propose that some flows underground to join the Naga River as it flows into the Heldannic Territories. Some, presumably, would also help water the marshes of the Great Northern Wildlands. Finally, some would run beneath the Adri Varma and help water Lake Hast and the oases/salt marsh of Sind.

2) Why is the surface fertile, if it consists of a basalt toplayer? I put forth glaciation as the answer. We know that much of this part of the world was covered in ice relatively recently (in geological terms, at least). Extensive glacial activity would have ground the top portions of the basalt cap into loose gravel and soil. If this is the case, we would expect small glacial hills to dot the landscape (check out Glacial Systems in Michael Ritter's The Physical Environment: an Introduction to Physical Geography for a look at some exaples of glacial landforms). I think these gentle hills are in keeping with Wendar's character, and seem very appropriate for much of the landscape.

Based on these observances, I think it is worthwhile to consider Wendar to be a volcanic plain, with the northern extent of the volcanic topsoil marked by the badlands to the north. Water features should be few and largely transient in nature, although substantial amounts of subterranean water help sustain plant life.

To return to the idea of the Wendarian Range as a glaciated basalt range, this would make them a very daunting set of mountains to get through. Fantastic pictures of some real world basalt ranges with significant glacial activity can be found at Ansel Adams Wilderness photos if you are interested. While the Wendarian Range would be very challenging to navigate, it seems to me that challenges are made to be met...

The pockets of forested hills to the south of Hollsvatn on Thorf's map seem like they are begging for an explanation as to why they are included within Wendar's borders. I propose that these represent the ancient Elven Stair, the secret paths once used for what little commerce passed between the elves of Wendar/Denagoth/Northern Wildlands and those of the Highlands (now Glantri). My suggestion is this secret (lost?) path begins with the Stair in Wendar, winds through a pass eastward into forested hills in Glantri, continues to an even longer pass southeastward to yet another set of forested hills, then passes through these hills to another pass, the highest yet, southward into Boldavia near Pavlova. I'm not sure just what sort of adventures one would run into along the way (I tend to think, though, that if anywhere in Wendar seems right for Avariel or Ee'aar, the Elven Stair would be the spot), but there are definitely tons of possibilities. Perhaps one portion of the path leads for miles through an old lava tube, now filled with ice year-round. Of course, it seems likely that no one would try this route unless they had need to carry a message quickly from Bensarian to Glantri without alerting the Knights, the Ethengar, or the Master of Hule... hmmm

What do you think?

Good thinking, Patrick. A thought I had while reading your post was that it may have been possible that with the rapid glacial retreat following the GRoF, the Wendarian plain was saturated with water faster than could be drained through the ground. This would have created a flood lake for a peroid of time giving the ground some sedimentation. This would have only lasted for a moment in geological time, but may have increased the fertility of the plain.

This is still a rugged land but the shallow, broad valleys would make good farmland (if it isn't a marsh or bog). I'm thinking that Wendar doesn't recieve a great deal of rain through the summer; the ground is hydrated by runoff from the mountains and the wet northern wildlands (assuming that area would be a slightly higher altitude). However, the heavy winter snows would saturate the ground making for terrible travelling conditions in the spring (as far as roads are concerned).

That would also mean the ground waters would have to disperse via the Naga River and (to an even greater extent, IMHO) Lake Hast, Lake Amsorak, the Streel River system, and the salt marsh of Sind. This combines with the precipitation of all the area's mountains and the Adri Varma plateau.

I'm trying to find where I saw a map that showed the prevailing winds. Does this exist? I could of swore I've seen it. The reason I was looking for it is to confirm that winds from the Sea of Dread could blow across the Great Waste and release their moisture on Adri Varma and Kurish Massif in summer.

Anyway, I really like your suggestions, Patrick.

I think this is an excellent explanation. In organising my thoughts on the Northern Wildlands, perhaps the great swamp (the Moors of Chyras - sp?) that dominates much of the southern portion is in fact the remnant of the great glacial lake. In ages past, the Muil River, a river fed by springs on the Adri Varma Plateau, and greatly swelled by glacial runoff, carved a path through the land, and found a large depression, which it began to fill along with many other glacial rivers - creating a lake. Over the following thousands of years, the waters receded, and the lake turned into a vast boggy mess at it began to silt over. Most of the river dried up, too, as the glaciers retreated, but some - like the vastly reduced Muil and its tributaries - remain. On its own, the Muil river system might not be enough to maintain the swamp, so the idea that a great deal of water exists under the porous soil could ensure that the swamps remain.

Geoff

Now my knowlegde of geology/geography is fairly limited but given the basalt and earlier volcanic activity,could there be some geysers?

Regards,
Gary

Excellent point! I hadn't really thought about it, but you are absolutely right: it would have been difficult for all this meltwater to escape. A large lake would have been very likely to have formed, at least for a while: the Great Lakes of North America are such glacial remains. I think it probably makes sense to argue that the land slopes very gradually northward, so most of what water remains has flowed off to the north. Sedimentation, then, would have been relatively brief, but enough to add considerable nutrients to the water.

Well, thanks! I think I've seen such a map too... maybe in DotE or Top Ballista? I don't have either handy today. At any rate, CoM states that Sind has a southerly monsoonal flow in the summer and a dry northerly wind off the Adri Varma in the winter.

Looking at a map of the region and imagining Earth's weather patterns, it is rather difficult to imagine that either the Adri Varma or Wendar getting a lot of precipitation one way or another. I would speculate that Wendar receives periodic light rainfall from the Midlands during the warmer months, but most storms unleash their fury on the Mengul and Wendarian Ranges. The Northern Adri Varma would be likely to receive similar weather, while its southern edge would have violent summer thunderstorms. In the winter, blizzards from the north would give at least some snowfall to both areas, although I think these are sheltered enough areas that I don't think we should consider them high snowfall.

I do not think that Wendar would naturally be a particularly wet region. The same is true, however, of the Canolbarth, which was once a vast tangle of scrub oak. Perhaps yet another aspect of the Korrigans' blessing is that the fierce winter storms are muted and their precipitation is spread through the year. On the other hand, this does seem more like the realm of the Sphere of Thought, and priestly intervention with Odin, Frey, and/or Freyja could provide a very compelling explanation for why humans have a place in this drying-out landscape

Absolutely! I think that works perfectly! More than likely, there would still be at least a few areas of deeper water mixed in among the marsh. I'm not sure--is there an outlet, eventually, from this marsh? Or is it boxed in? If the water does not flow out, it would be a salt marsh, as significant evaporation would be taking place. Of course, even if there is an outlet, the marsh would likely have a relatively high salinity. Presumably the frogmen like that sort of thing

I don't know a lot about geysers, but my understanding is that they are more associated with granite-extrusive volcanoes than with basalt. Of course, nowhere on earth (and, presumably, nowhere in Mystara) do we see one type of rock to the absolute exclusion of others, so I don't see any reason why there should not be at least a handful of geysers in Wendar. I think they would be most likely to occur in the foothills of the Wendarian Range. Other reasonable locations might be near the base of the Adri Varma, in the Mengul foothills, or at the badlands north of Wendar marking the beginning of the moors and the end of the proposed lava flow.

It is from the PWAs that I got the heavy snowfall in winter comment. That's why I was trying to figure out how winter would be Wendar's rather heavy wet-season. I certainly agree that Wendar shouldn't get much rain in the summer dry months.

Well hello all - it's been simply ages (about 4 years) since i posted anything Mystara like - the joys of getting a job and getting married and things kind of got in the way. So anyway - recently I was thinking about Gazetteers and it occured that a group might make a few of the ones that were never done. What's the first thing I find when I go looking - your fabulous Wendar mini-gaz and map. So here are a few thoughts, comments etc...

1. There are roads connecting woodgate, Oakwall and Sylvair and these all link at one point. Economically I imagine that a good size village or maybe even a town would grow at that point.

2. The mini gaz is great but there are a few 'east's and 'west's the wrong way round. At least there are on the Pandius version. Is there a more recent one?

3. Given the depth of Wendar material here might it be worth using the standard breakdown of Gaz chapters to file things away. Thus far the geography section is very well fleshed out (understandably) but other sections to consider include...
What everyone knows about Wendar (probably written last)
History (a pruned version of Marco's timeline maybe?)
People (inc NPCs)
Society, laws etc.
Adventure suggestions

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Col.