1. Robin
    15 November 2016 @ 9:35 pm

    Nice work
    I’ve been busy with the Streel/Krandai river in 1 mile for the secret of the Streel river in my Blog. So especially this is useful, with the extra compiled information.
    Here my work thus far

    Though I see you also use the waterfall symbol in the Mucks… ;(
    Not only is this impossible to have a waterfall in a stagnant swamp, but the earlier maps did not display that feature.
    I think this was a flaw, or misplacement, as they also neglected some of the 3 waterfalls of the Vesubian in the Broken Lands.


    • Thorfinn Tait
      17 November 2016 @ 2:06 pm

      Robin, the three lines symbol is not a waterfall but rather rapids. The number of lines shows the danger of the rapids, or perhaps the speed? The label was “greater rapids”.

      Having said that, I don’t know if that makes it any more realistic. It may be best to remember that the hexes don’t tell the whole story of the terrain, so if there are rapids there, perhaps the river goes through a rocky area within the swamp.

      Even if it had been a waterfall, it’s still possible. Perhaps there is a cliff where the level of the land drops suddenly. Such things are hard to impossible to mark on a hex map, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

      Great work on your map, by the way. 🙂 I especially like the diagram at the bottom.

    • Robin
      17 November 2016 @ 8:25 pm

      three lines a greater Rapid?. while the same symbol is used elsewhere for waterfalls?
      I remember two lines was rapid and three waterfall, although there was also one map atleast with a square symbol with a midline used in the same fashion and used as waterfall.

      But don’t you agree with the fact that a muck/moor/swamp/bog or similar is slow flowing or standing water, thus with a near horizontal level?. As thus there are no altitude differences…that’s the basic principle biogeological to these areas.

      And we have the differences in the maps of that region, there are several older versions NOT displaying anything on that location while later maps also reveal other flaws. Combining both this and the biogeological effect of swamps, isn’t it more logical to assume this is a flaw , continuously overlooked by later map makers?

      I totally agree that hexes don’t tell the whole story, many details are lost. But cliffs, and such seem to be so impossible in a swamp…don’t you agree. There are as far as I know no real examples of swamps with either rapids, waterfalls or cliffs in any form. Water always flows the easiest way possible. I this cliff/rapid would be so, the only possibility is a sort of wall over the whole length of the area keeping water there, with only the rapid/waterfall as the place enabling further flow, though slow…that specific spot and wall than had to be reflected on the map in some way..

      Not to critisize your awesome work, but I truly think this flaw is something not befitting to your great map.
      In my research for the Broken Lands map in 1 mile hexes, I truly delved deep in this matter, and saw no other solution than that the rapid/fall is a flaw, an accidently moved symbol, which belonged to the three falls of the Vesubian River from the older maps.

      Here is my result of that area in 1 mile hexes.

      To the rest; I agree there are many flaws made by the original mappers and I truly think, they forgot to see flow and altitudes in making the various maps. I had to solve this in the Streel…where a section flows Uphill magically. .

      Thanx to my map, it is all research in an attempt to explain the flaws in Gazetteers and maps of this region.
      Together with the 2300BC maps I could derive the Lake that was in this region and together with the fact that Ethengar rivers are very slow moving I devised the only logical flow pattern possible.
      The Streel flows as normal (but with a magic effect in the Broken Lands against gravity…more about this soon in my http://breathofmystara.blogspot.nl ), and the Krandai flows from Bargha into the Sea of flowers and from the vestland region into the Sea of Flowers. evaporation and seeve like effects underground remove the season overflow.

      Doesn’t this sound more logical /realistic?..in a world of magic? At least it explains the waterflow.

  2. JTrithen
    16 November 2016 @ 7:41 am

    Great map, Thorf!
    Had you thought or planned including sites such as Torkyn Falls, the abandoned gnome city, on the map? This would be from the Dragonlord book trilogy. They would be ruins, of course. But, they may just be underground, though (I’m not sure, I’d have to go to the books to check). (I looked for it but didn’t see anything like that on the map.)


    • Thorfinn Tait
      17 November 2016 @ 2:08 pm

      I’ve been on the fence about the Dragonlord trilogy for years now. Thus far, none of my maps incorporate anything from those novels, as far as I know.

      I wouldn’t be opposed to adding it in if the community wants it, though.

    • JTrithen
      17 November 2016 @ 2:22 pm

      Right. Certainly a community consensus sort of thing, then. Well, I don’t see any clamoring for it.
      I like to incorporate most (pretty much all, if possible) published works. But, I know there are conflicts. And, I am not as knowledgeable or well-versed as many others about lore, published works, etc.; so, I am not always qualified, or haven’t take the time to have done the research, to push against some consensuses (or lack thereof).
      I love how to seek out input and feedback, and try to incorporate those things that a majority of the community supports!

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